NOT FOR SALE - тема исключение

[Moscow 333]

Комментарий Red News

No doubt there are a few people today thinking, after the Glazers whistle stop pr tour, 'why not give them a chance, I mean, Fergie seems happy, and they've put Ј790m of their money into the club, are shrewd businessmen, etc, etc'.

Those of us against the Glazer bid aren't still against it because we are stubborn gits unable to refuse any sort of change. This bid is bad, very bad, for United.

We've gone from being a profitable club, to a debt ridden one. And a heavy debt ridden one at that, nearly six times the rate of debt Leeds had (and look at them) and now needing 3 times, shrewd observers say, our average yearly profit just to pay the debts.

It is reported we now need to find a Ј88m surplus a year - just to pay the debts. For a club making around Ј30m a year, we, the fans, can't help but not only be against this, but highly concerned as to where these funds will come from - it'll be us who have to foot it, and the Glazers having put up ticket prices 5 times in 7 years at Tampa have form with that regard. And remember if they DO find the Ј88m - that is only just paying the debts, it's not actually even helped us go into profit for the year.

It's not actually their money that has foot the takeover either, it's the club itself.

Some will say they've just spent nearly Ј800m on buying United - give them a chance.

From the BBC web site:

"More than one-third of Mr Glazer's Ј790m offer for the club is debt secured against United's assets, such as its Old Trafford stadium, while a further Ј275m comes from loans from three US hedge funds."

The hedge funds loans are so high, at such ridiculous levels of interest that they in affect are the new bosses at Old Trafford. And that is baaaaaaaaad news.

David Gill can smile for the cameras all he likes but this is a man who was part of a Board who last October said: "I don't think any sensible person would think we could recommend a proposal that could jeopardise something that has been built up over so many years...the business plan could be detrimental to the success of Manchester United".

Yes, a right change of tune.

And as for the Glazers shrwed business expertise.

Three years ago, Glazer attempted to buy the Swiss football club FC Zurich. He told its president, Sven Hotz “When I take over, nobody has a say apart from me”. Herr Hotz politely declined the offer. (from 99 reasons...)

Glazer goes for the jugular. When he offered to buy the Buccaneers, he promised the Tampa authorities he would go halves on a new stadium with them. After getting control, he backed out of the deal, and gave Tampa two years to build it themselves or he would move the team to a city that would. Tampa caved in, and city taxpayers are still paying a half-cent sales tax to fund the stadium’s construction. Ex-Tampa mayor Bill Poe estimates that this has cost the City some $400 million in all.

Glazer’s first attempt at a takeover was in 1984 when he tried to buy the bankrupt US Conrail system. He offered $7.6bn, though he only actually had $100m of his own.

Marisa Bowe, former editor of the internet magazine Word.com dealt with one of his sons, Avram in 1998 when Zapata bailed out her company. 'He was an idiot, and I'm not the sort of person who uses the word idiot lightly. Avram had this dream of being a big swinging dick of the internet but his ambition was hampered by an almost surreal incompetence.They completely screwed it up. It was almost comic. They didn't know anything about the business they were getting into and they didn't seem to care. He's pathetic. Such a daddy's boy. This is the one thing he had tried to do on his own and he couldn't have done it worse. I really hope Manchester United find someone else.'

We remain firmly against this bid because, like the plc Board did for so long, we believe it is not in the best interests of Manchester United, and with the levels of debt we will see desperate measures enforced to try and claw back money into the club.

United fans have an opportunity to say they will no longer be pawns, used and abused by those with no sense of the traditions and history of our great club who come in and take our money. It is OUR club, not theirs and as such we can support the football club but make the financial side of the club know that our message is we will not settle until United fans have a real say and stake in the running of OUR club.

As such, with the debt, the restrictions that the Glazers find themselves having to pay back these loans, if United fans continue to stand up for what is right and a better long term future of the club by refusing to play ball off the pitch, the boycotts proposed by the Coalition will mean that one day United fans could be in a position to have a real opportunity to have a real say in the running of our club.

It is for that, and many, many other reasons that we stand against this bid and all it stands for. The debt is rising. As we speak. But if United fans rise as one OUR club will be in OUR hands, not a plaything for the rich and (in)famous.

[Moscow 333]

No doubt there are a few people today thinking, after the Glazers whistle stop pr tour, 'why not give them a chance, I mean, Fergie seems happy, and they've put Ј790m of their money into the club, are shrewd businessmen, etc, etc'.

Those of us against the Glazer bid aren't still against it because we are stubborn gits unable to refuse any sort of change. This bid is bad, very bad, for United.

We've gone from being a profitable club, to a debt ridden one. And a heavy debt ridden one at that, nearly six times the rate of debt Leeds had (and look at them) and now needing 3 times, shrewd observers say, our average yearly profit just to pay the debts.

It is reported we now need to find a Ј88m surplus a year - just to pay the debts. For a club making around Ј30m a year, we, the fans, can't help but not only be against this, but highly concerned as to where these funds will come from - it'll be us who have to foot it, and the Glazers having put up ticket prices 5 times in 7 years at Tampa have form with that regard. And remember if they DO find the Ј88m - that is only just paying the debts, it's not actually even helped us go into profit for the year.

It's not actually their money that has foot the takeover either, it's the club itself.

Some will say they've just spent nearly Ј800m on buying United - give them a chance.

From the BBC web site:

"More than one-third of Mr Glazer's Ј790m offer for the club is debt secured against United's assets, such as its Old Trafford stadium, while a further Ј275m comes from loans from three US hedge funds."

The hedge funds loans are so high, at such ridiculous levels of interest that they in affect are the new bosses at Old Trafford. And that is baaaaaaaaad news.

David Gill can smile for the cameras all he likes but this is a man who was part of a Board who last October said: "I don't think any sensible person would think we could recommend a proposal that could jeopardise something that has been built up over so many years...the business plan could be detrimental to the success of Manchester United".

Yes, a right change of tune.

And as for the Glazers shrwed business expertise.

Three years ago, Glazer attempted to buy the Swiss football club FC Zurich. He told its president, Sven Hotz “When I take over, nobody has a say apart from me”. Herr Hotz politely declined the offer. (from 99 reasons...)

Glazer goes for the jugular. When he offered to buy the Buccaneers, he promised the Tampa authorities he would go halves on a new stadium with them. After getting control, he backed out of the deal, and gave Tampa two years to build it themselves or he would move the team to a city that would. Tampa caved in, and city taxpayers are still paying a half-cent sales tax to fund the stadium’s construction. Ex-Tampa mayor Bill Poe estimates that this has cost the City some $400 million in all.

Glazer’s first attempt at a takeover was in 1984 when he tried to buy the bankrupt US Conrail system. He offered $7.6bn, though he only actually had $100m of his own.

Marisa Bowe, former editor of the internet magazine Word.com dealt with one of his sons, Avram in 1998 when Zapata bailed out her company. 'He was an idiot, and I'm not the sort of person who uses the word idiot lightly. Avram had this dream of being a big swinging dick of the internet but his ambition was hampered by an almost surreal incompetence.They completely screwed it up. It was almost comic. They didn't know anything about the business they were getting into and they didn't seem to care. He's pathetic. Such a daddy's boy. This is the one thing he had tried to do on his own and he couldn't have done it worse. I really hope Manchester United find someone else.'

We remain firmly against this bid because, like the plc Board did for so long, we believe it is not in the best interests of Manchester United, and with the levels of debt we will see desperate measures enforced to try and claw back money into the club.

United fans have an opportunity to say they will no longer be pawns, used and abused by those with no sense of the traditions and history of our great club who come in and take our money. It is OUR club, not theirs and as such we can support the football club but make the financial side of the club know that our message is we will not settle until United fans have a real say and stake in the running of OUR club.

As such, with the debt, the restrictions that the Glazers find themselves having to pay back these loans, if United fans continue to stand up for what is right and a better long term future of the club by refusing to play ball off the pitch, the boycotts proposed by the Coalition will mean that one day United fans could be in a position to have a real opportunity to have a real say in the running of our club.

It is for that, and many, many other reasons that we stand against this bid and all it stands for. The debt is rising. As we speak. But if United fans rise as one OUR club will be in OUR hands, not a plaything for the rich and (in)famous.

Red News

[gentle]

Давно хотел спросить, но все откладывал. Не могу понять, почему боссы SU не продают свои акции хотя 98% членов SU сделали это по их совету?

[Moscow 333]

Сообщение от gentle

Давно хотел спросить, но все откладывал. Не могу понять, почему боссы SU не продают свои акции хотя 98% членов SU сделали это по их совету?

а откуда такая информация? судя по материалам, которые читал я, только один из четырех рук-лей СУ не продал акции, да и то не все, а небольшую часть. он объяснял это эмоциями. я лично его понимаю, почему бы и нет?

[Bel]

Вопрос в первую очередь Moscow 333: в интервью были ли их обьяснения по поводу долга? Ведь именно он является самым большим камнем преткновения.

P.S. Если кто-то видел интервью MUTV с членами этой *********** ****** ******* семьи. Расскажите пожалуйста о их словах относительно этой самой больщой проблемы. Заранее благодарю.

[Moscow 333]

все есть в ленте новостей, надо лишь прочитать

[Moscow 333]

в июле SU будет переименована в "The Manchester United Supporters Trust"

полное письмо SU:


The SU Board and committee would like to apologise to members for the lack of regular communication over the last couple of weeks.

We hope to address this partly using a new email news list. Please subscribe to the list here to receive important news from SU (probably once a week after the initial period, your email address is never passed on to anyone else):
http://yahoogroups.com/group/su-news/

(If you don't have a Yahoo! ID you'll need to click on the Sign Up link to register).

We will be contacting you shortly with information about the following:
The Phoenix Fund - general info
Share Scheme share sales - cheques or proceeds into the Phoenix Fund Share Scheme share transfers Private Share sales - will you be putting proceeds into your Phoenix Fund account?
Membership Renewal - if your membership is due for renewal we'll be in touch soon Skills database - if you have skills which could be of use to SU we'll be asking for you to let us know Campaign volunteers - if you want to get more involved Regional Groups - we'll be working on building social and campaign groups on regional basis Social and fundraising events in your area Special events and exclusive offers for members Advertising - would you or your company be interested in ads (newsletter, mailshots or web) or sponsorship of SU/MUST or the Phoenix Fund? Please contact us immediately

Please make sure you are on the su-news email list so that you don't miss out on information.

As you will all understand, it has been a very hectic time for all the SU volunteers, processing huge amounts of mail, and making sure that members'
options for their shares in our share scheme were properly dealt with. A huge vote of thanks to everyone who helped out at the office and remotely and we are sorry if you tried to contact us but couldn't get through - our lines were swamped by the traffic. We are now sorting out the share transfers and cheque requests (see below) as well as processing annual renewals for almost 15,000 members (if your membership is due for renewal we will let you know shortly), plus putting together a quarterly newsletter, so we anticipate that in about two weeks time, SU will be operating 'normally' again.

At the end of July, we will have re-registered SU as an Industrial & Provident Society under the name "The Manchester United Supporters Trust"
or 'MUST', putting us firmly in the mutual movement as with all other football supporters' trusts. You will recall that members approved this step at the EGM held in March and we are going through the final registration process with the FSA. This will involve a formal public re- launch before the start of the new season, so that we will from that time on be known as MUST and with some new logos - including a Phoenix ▒brand'
logo which will be seen on our alternative merchandise. The Phoenix Fund will be the vehicle by which MUST and the fans will reclaim our club when the time comes. Read more about this in the newsletter article below.

Members will understand that as we will soon have no shares to unite around, this re-branding comes at an appropriate time although it has been long term term plan. You'll note that we've been using the name "The Manchester United Supporters' Trust" for several years and in particular it has appeared on our members' certificates for the last three years.

Our organisation will continue as before, there will be no significant changes to the way we operate, except that we are determined to become even more professional and effective than we have been up to now - and we hope that all our members will continue to be as committed and loyal in the future as they have been to date.

#####################################
Newsletter article from the SU Chair:
#####################################

They are saying it's all over, that we've lost. Give up and go home, you put up a great fight, but it's pointless going on.

They couldn't be more wrong.

SU has always been in for the long haul: when we started our share scheme 4 years ago, we knew it might take decades to acquire a significant stake in United. But despite having to campaign against predators almost continuously since we came into existence, we have built up over 32,000 members who have all bought shares and who all believe in the cause of independence, that our club should not be owned by a single person or company.

And as a result of our powerful fight, our success in showing the fans'
absolute opposition to a takeover, we have the best opportunity we will
ever have to acquire that ownership stake in our club.

How come we are so optimistic, at the moment when Glazer is about to take 100% control of our club? Well we know that the huge majority of United fans are either opposed to Glazer or deeply suspicious of him. And we are sure that he will confirm those suspicions by his purely profit-based actions.

And there are three other key reasons for our optimism:

First, Glazer has been forced into buying United with a gargantuan amount of debt, threatening our club with financial meltdown should he fail to service or repay it. SU has analysed the debt mountain with our advisers and our findings are summarised opposite. Whatever Glazer does with this debt, he cannot repay it and rebuild the team at the same time. And be sure that the banks will get their money back first.

Second, Glazer's business plan is by common consent aggressive and over- optimistic about how much revenue he can generate. He is projecting a near- doubling of operating profits in the two years 2006-8, from ё58m to ё107m.
No-one can see how he will do it. What we do know is that the price of everything to do with the club will rise year-on-year. Fans will not be able to afford to watch United and will exercise their consumer choice by not buying the club's (or the sponsors') products. It will not take many millions of lost revenue to cause Glazer to fail to reach his targets and for the banks to call in the loans and put the club back on the market.
And be very clear that it is Glazer who is gambling with our club, it is not SU or the fans that have put the club in danger.

And third, most important - we have to be there when the club comes up for sale. We have to be there with a serious fund, to buy back the shares that Glazer has ripped from us in his hostile takeover. The Phoenix Fund will be the launchpad for this - our members have already committed about ё2 million to the fund, with another ё15 million worth of private shares which we are asking them to pledge, at least in part. The same goes for the 41, 700 individual shareholders who will be receiving money from Glazer in the next weeks and months if they haven't already. And we will also be building the fund over the next 2-3 years with the support of the fans, through our fundraising activities and with help from institutions like Nomura and other wealthy investors who have pledged to contribute when the time comes.

This is not a pipedream - this is a real opportunity for those of us who want to keep the dream alive, the dream that we will one day have our shares back and own a real stake in our club. This is not a time for despair, despite what has happened. This is the time for all of us to work even harder with our fellow reds, with all the fans groups, to win this war and to make sure this never happens again.

[Moscow 333]

обращение коалиции NFS, основная суть которого сводится к тезису: "не поддавайтесь на дешевый пиар" и это правильно. жирным выделены вопросы, на которые, видимо, ответов не последует ...

(“WHATEVER YOU DO, DON’T MENTION THE DEBT”)

The Glazer charm offensive has begun. Warm words flow and verbal assurances are given about the family’s intentions. The Premier League, the FA, the Sports Minister, the directors and employees at Old Trafford, the manager, the players, Sir Bobby – all appear to have accepted at face value the brothers protestations that they will not change anything, that they will work with everyone at the club to achieve success, that there will be money for new players with no caps or tied hands, that the collective TV deal is safe in their hands and that they fully respect the history and traditions of the club.

These words are intended to allay the fears of the fans, who are expected to watch MUTV tonight to hear Joel address them directly for the first (and only?) time. It is notable that so few people actually subscribe to MUTV (thousands have cancelled their subscriptions since the takeover).

But United fans are right to look behind the soft words, because they have seen at first hand the actions of the Glazer family. They have seen the Glazers mount what was a hostile takeover of United, against the wishes of everyone at the club; they have seen three directors kicked off the board; they have seen a debt–free club taken over with over with Ј650 million of borrowings – more than any other sporting club in history. These are the facts.

Verbal assurances from the Glazers must be treated with caution. The family gave undertakings to the City of Tampa that they would pay half the cost of a new stadium in Tampa when they were looking to acquire the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1995 – they reneged on that undertaking after they bought the team, threatening to take the Bucs franchise to another city if Tampa did not pay the whole cost. The City ended up funding the whole bill for Glazer’s stadium and the citizens of Tampa are still paying for it through higher taxes. Ex-Tampa mayor Bill Poe estimates that this has cost the City some $400 million in all.

So no, United fans have no reason to believe their velvet words. We’ll judge them on their actions.

And having bought the club and kept the executive directors in place, we are now hearing from CEO David Gill how great it is to be working with the Glazers. This just months after he and his colleagues damned the Glazers’ takeover bid as “aggressive”, “potentially damaging” and putting a “direct and indirect strain on the business”. Fans groups were told by Gill and Finance Director Nick Humby on many occasions in the past that they would never sanction the club taking on any debt because of the potential consequences and risks. And now we have JP Morgan and three US hedge funds holding the future of the Glazers and our club in their hands, with Ј650 million of expensive ‘junk’ debt which is already growing at an alarming rate. There are serious questions of integrity to be answered here, given the rewards that the executive directors have been offered to stay on.

United fans have seen their club go almost overnight from being a debt-free, profitable well-run club to one which has been taken over using Ј650 million of debt. We are entitled to ask the questions which no-one so far appears to have asked the Glazers –

• How can you repay this huge amount of debt and expect to fund the rebuilding of the team?
• How are you going to make enough profits to do this and what happens if you don’t?
• How much are the fans going to have to pay in increased ticket prices and for their merchandise to meet the debt service and repayment needs of the banks?
• Will there be a sale & leaseback of Old Trafford to pay back debt?

“Joel speaks about United as a national treasure – well he’s taken on the national debt to pay for it” said Mark Longden, Chair of IMUSA “and it will be the fans footing the bill”.

The Glazers dare not speak about the debt or their plans to finance it, because it would involve coming clean about how the fans will be expected to behave like good economic units, like sheep to be milked to keep the banks serviced and the Glazers in profit.

No-one is accusing the Glazers of buying United to intentionally ruin it. They want success on the pitch to lead to success and profit off it. But in the words of Sir Bobby “they do not know the football game” and it is almost incredible that they have been allowed to take such an enormous gamble with our club’s future. Fans have every right to be concerned. We will continue to voice those concerns on behalf of the fans at every available opportunity.

[Moscow 333]

The Joel Glazer Interview (с офисайта)

You know the one thing we always say about the club in Tampa is while we may be the owners, no one really owns the club. The fans, the supporters are the owners of the club and we are the stewards of the club.
Грамотный ход перестать заставлять людей думать о том, о чем они говорят на демонстрациях о чем говорит СУ уже много лет ...

and then you’ve got David Gill who’s done a tremendous job here. Not only David Gill, the whole staff here.
Да *****, я помню что вы сделали с тремя директорами, когда вам бизнес-план не давали.

What type of owner are you going to be?
“Very passionate. I can say that much from our experience in Tampa. In the 10 years we’ve owned the team, I’ve never missed a match.
Вот ведь ****абол. Неужели он не читал, что про него писал первый директор тампы?

Will you have an office here?
"I think we would have a presence but, again, in a supportive role because there is a wonderful management team in place, wonderful people in place. It only makes sense when you are passionate about something to have a presence there but it’s in a supporting role."
Ну вот собственно и ответ. Я, говорит, страстный болельщик, но ну вас на*** с вашими болельщиками и командой заодно. Поеду во флориду, там телки ...

Why have you waited until now to speak up?
"That has been a little frustrating for us because people who know me and know my family know that anytime they can come up to us and approach us and we’re happy to talk.
И это после того, как его сестра сказала, что он полный ***** ...

Is communication with the fans important to you?
"It’s extremely important. Again I keep coming back to it, fans are the lifeblood of the club.
Слышали? Вы нужны ему, бандерлоги. Несите ваше бабло, он ждет. Он жаждет его. Вы для него самое главное, потому что без вас его пристрелят бандюки джипи моргана. От меня он *** увидит, а не бабло.

What is your response to the allegations you are going to sell and lease back Old Trafford?
"Absolutely ridiculous! That’s been one of the real frustrating things we’ve read about and you just want to communicate directly that that’s not going to happen. There are absolutely no plans to do that. This is the heritage and the real foundation of this club so there is no thought process whatsoever to be doing that.”
Ага. Я тебе поверю, щаз. Расскажи эту байку гиллу, который про тебя же говорил, что твой оффер никуда не годится, а теперь говорит, что все ****ись. Слова твои равны нулю и не стоят нихрена.

Are you going to change the club’s logo?
“That’s another one of those absolutely ridiculous things we’ve been reading and again people who know me know that I’m big on tradition in any sport. I’m very averse to change. That is part of the fabric of this club so just because something may have happened many years ago in Tampa, which is a completely different situation to this, they immediately jump to conclusions that this is going to happen. There’s something beautiful about the fabric of this club. There are absolutely no plans to change that.”
Ну анекдот конечно. Через год поменял логотип тампы и говорит, что здесь другое ... Что другое то? Для тебя это бизнес, гаденыш, а для нас религия.

Has the heritage honestly gripped you?
"It’s funny, we were doing some other things today and I only had a limited time to be in there (the museum) and I could have spent three hours there.
Я не понял, он что надеется, что люди не знают почему он там 3 часа проторчал? Совсем дурак что ли? Жаль, ни один кирпич до тебя не долетел ...

You’ve been accused of putting the club into debt and gambling with its assets. How do you respond?
“We would have not got involved with Manchester United if we did not feel that the club under our ownership could continue to be the great club it has been. Our family personally has invested over Ј270million.
Ты забыл добавить, что хоть и вложил 270мф своих, но на плечах клуба теперь висит 550мф. Хорошая перспектива для бизнеса, правда? Много ли история знает примеров удачного бизнеса с изначальным долгом в миллиард+ долга? Расскажите мне, мне интересно.

What are the main benefits of being privately owned company rather than a PLC?
“As people know, if you’re a PLC you’re trying to do things to satisfy the financial sectors. Sometimes you can’t always take such a long term view of situations, sometimes you can’t make such quick decisions.
Действительно, для того, чтобы продать Руни теперь не надо получать добро СД, можно папу просто спросить.

... very much understand the fans and the passion and the reaction. That’s one of the reasons this club is so great because people are passionate about it and following it.”
Мне нравится плакат НФС на СЭ. Мне навится чант "дай глейзер дай". Мне нравится SU. Мне нравится вся коалиция НФС. Мне нравится МЕС. Вы все мне нравитесь и я буду вас иметь ... Будешь, но не всех. Ты будешь иметь каждого, кто купит новую форму и китайцев на ОТ, но ты не поимеешь меня и не поимеешь тех, о ком ты понятия не имеешь. Ты - гнида, и рано или поздно сдохнешь где нибудь в трущобах ливерпуля с переломаными костями.

They don’t want to hear from me, they want to see the players.
Ты сильно ошибаешься. Или путаешь нас с китайцами. Или ты уже забыл, что этот клуб и из кого он состоит? Игроки на поле и 90 минут игры - это конечный результат того, что называется "Манчестер Юнайтед - это моя жизнь". А жизнь эта состоит из 7 дней в неделю ожидания этой игры. Ожидание заполняется всем остальным. Теперь ожидание отчасти заполнил ты и я не рад тебя видеть. Ты не нужен мне в этом ожидании. Ты никто. Пошел на***.


---


Но интервью очень грамотное конечно. Пиарщики постарались. В такие моменты я не люблю свою профессию, потому что знаю сколько лжи за этим дерьмом стоит. Но, к сожалению, подавляющее большинство людей не воспримет это так, а воспримет как и раньше: "давайте дадим им шанс", "они просто бизнесмены" ... Что ж, так всегда было и так будет. Но как же приятно находиться в меньшистве и понимать, что именно это меньшинство и есть то самое, родное, сумасшедшее и безумное. То, из чего и сложился Юнайтед такой, каким он сегодня является. Убери это меньшиство и что останется? Страшно представить.

[Vox_S]

Зачем показывать одну сторону медали. Режте правду матку про ваш ФэКа Юнайтыд. Читайте статью и коменты. http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/sp...tory_id=164750

ЗЫ Нуе х*й косить под англичан.